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Wow

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welcome to shattered reality with your

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hosts kate valentine and Farrugia

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prepare to head her paradigms shifted in

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the truth questioned and now shattered

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reality welcome back we're happy to have

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you tuned in and we hope we always hear

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from you and I hope you have some

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questions because we have a most

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interesting guest today you will be

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hearing from him soon that is dr. Ross

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done seats but I first I think Russia

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you have some announcements well we have

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one very big announcement here after

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that yes at shattered reality we are now

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on iTunes we finally got eight episodes

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and so we submitted our podcast to

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iTunes and voila we are on in any case

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that's that's the most important

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announcement that we have the second

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announcement revolves around a oddly a

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client of mine I've written up a blog

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piece about a client of mine who is the

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daughter of the late that dr. max

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Jacobson dr. feelgood who treated

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Kennedy and Nixon and other famous

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people and this kind lady lives in

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brooklyn new york and the night of the

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Germanwings a crash the actually the

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night before are there at six hours

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ahead of us over there and that time

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zone of Europe it was about one o'clock

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in the morning and Jill Jacobson

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couldn't get to sleep and she was

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Restless but perhaps in a liminal state

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and these words kept rolling through her

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mind and she couldn't raz

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until she got up and wrote the words

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down and the words revolved around jet

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fuel and crashing a plane and flying and

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wings and a lot of other things that I

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kind of like you to take a look at dear

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listeners if you'd like to become dear

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readers and this is at Farrugia

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wordpress.com and it is a an account of

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what happened to Jill Jacobson and the

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poem that she wrote and forgot about the

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night few hours before the Germanwings

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crash that's my second announcement and

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now we're going to go to our main

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programming which is the very

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interesting fascinating intelligent

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guess that we have for you today dr.

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Ross dunseith dr. Dunn see does work at

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the division of perceptual studies at

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the University of Virginia he is also

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associated with the Cedar Creek

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Institute which may be another name for

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the Department of perceptual studies i'm

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sure he'll set us straight with that and

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he works with such parapsychological

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luminaries as james tucker and dr. ed

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Kelly and the late dr. Ian Stevenson so

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I'd like you to welcome dr. Ross

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dunseith to our show and his specialty

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is psychokinesis dr. dunseith do you

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mind if we call you Ross well no go

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right ahead thank you well I'd like to

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start uh obviously your background is in

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electrical engineering and you still do

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that type of work with medical

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instrumentation now that is a long

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distance away from any of the so-called

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paranormal ones how did you ever get

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into that was it was there a

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precipitating episode or event

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well it's actually not as far away as

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you might think but I really got

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introduced to all this stuff as an

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undergrad at Duke University ah back in

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the 1970s I hate to admit it was that

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long ago but working in electrical in

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char as a student and electrical

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engineering there was a lab they're

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called the experiential learning lab and

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that was run by dr. John orly the late

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dr. early when i first started getting

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active in that lab that was mostly

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biofeedback EEG biofeedback and then egg

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kelly joined the lab and brought in sigh

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research and his interests at the time

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was to try to combine physiological

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monitoring with controlled side tasks

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which is what we're still working on to

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this day but that's how I got my start

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in as an undergrad engineering student

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yeah well it's funny I applied to Duke

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when after I left high school and

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because they were the only Institute's a

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time that went into paranormal research

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and I was accepted and I was frightened

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and left Oh seemed a little bit too real

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to me and I thought you know I don't

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think I wanna investigate ghosts that is

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that's Kate speaking yes I'm sorry no no

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I don't know who if we're decipherable

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did you meet dr. Rhine when you were

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there as well no you know I never did to

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that I'm I'm really sorry I didn't get a

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chance to but when i was there is this

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undergrad there were three different

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places doing sigh research in Durham

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North Carolina Wow so there was the

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right Institute which back then was

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known as the foundation for research

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into the nature of man and they had

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moved off of Duke campus to a big house

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right off right across the street and

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then there was a second place called the

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PRF the psychic psychical Research

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Foundation I guess sir

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I thought of a psychical Research Center

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that was run by Bill role has pretty

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famous for poltergeist studies and then

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our little lab in the engineering

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Electrical Engineering Department hmm

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what did Doris Duke back any of those

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was she interested in that not that I

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know no just out of curiosity so what

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have you found anything uh you know I've

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known you obviously you've been studying

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this a long time have you uh sort of

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found any clues as to what is behind all

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of these so-called telekinesis

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psychokinesis psychic yeah we have yes

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yes we have left we have a bone of

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contention here at shattered realities

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are no no don't be sorry I'm gonna be

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sorry but I realized I'm I was saying

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that one of the first things we should

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speak to you about is for you I

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understand that your main field of

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interest is psychokinesis and Kate then

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said telekinesis ni said hmm I think

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that's you know tell more like

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teleporting from a greater distance like

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making something appear that wasn't

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there before whereas psychokinesis is

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moving something like an object across a

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table or something of that nature or

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bending spoons as we at the monroe

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institute like to do well it's but for a

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third term in there just to really get

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it confusing how about buying matter

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interaction ah okay I like that one

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that's great yeah there's a lot of

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different terms for the same thing I

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mean I think telekinesis really means

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affecting something at a distance so you

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have tella which is from a distance and

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Kinesis which is you know movement or

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and then psychokinesis would be

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affecting something with your mind and

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then it can all just fall into my matter

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interaction mm I so the terminologies

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problem with all this every every few

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years it seems like in the world of

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parapsychology they undergo an upheaval

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about what these things are called

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so you know the famous ESP and

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extrasensory perception and PK

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psychokinesis and there's clairvoyance

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which is essentially finding out some

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information that you should know that

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that would sort of fall under the

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category of ESP but ESP could also

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include telepathy which will be

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mind-to-mind communication so there's a

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lot of different and then precognition

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you know like the lady you were

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describing with the poem the night

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before the crash right right just hours

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before us it turns out but yes yes right

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so lots of different terms well we would

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basically just wanted to clear up for

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our less I don't say less informed

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listeners but yeah less informed

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listeners what psychokinesis actually

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was before we took the ball and ran with

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the psychokinesis and spoke with you so

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I think you've you fought let everybody

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know quite clearly inclined me thank you

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yeah well you know I can just give you a

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real short history about psychokinesis

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I'll be great yeah that's well it's it's

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been known about for you know a few

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thousand years really I'd say the first

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instance instances of it that have been

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recorded were these so-called

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poltergeist type of event which are

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classically like showers of rocks

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raining down on the roof of the house or

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things flying across the room almost

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like a mischievous you know ghost or

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spirit is getting in and messing around

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with things and it's been recorded for

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for quite a while these type of

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activities and then the next big thing

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that came along probably was the in the

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late 1800s the spiritualist yes yes yeah

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yeah you know materializing things and

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the most famous of those was DD Hume

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levitate oh and speaking of levitation

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there was also in the 15th or 16th

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century a very famous monk st. Joseph of

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Cupertino who levitated all the time he

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became rather infamous the Catholic

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Church was really rather embarrassed by

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it and kept moving him from a monastery

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to monastery but the word would get out

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the disguise floating and the crowds

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would gather I'd not peanut he was kind

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of like a medieval rock star I can't see

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why I can see why yeah witness by kings

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and queens and 11 quiz / and then DD

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human was similar to that he was a

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medium who levitated he also levitated

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objects and did a lot of quite fantastic

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macro PK type things in controlled

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conditions and was studied by scientists

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of the time some of whom got into

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trouble for it sir william crookes

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studies him and published papers about

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it they actually did measurements using

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scales and found that he you know was

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reducing the weight of objects or

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lifting extremely heavy tables causing

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them to levitate that most people could

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not you know would take three or four

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people to lift this table and he was

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just levitating it and so you know them

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from there in the early 20s I think

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there was a rather famous case of some

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psychics we were able to bend light

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beams and that was accidentally

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discovered and then it sort of evolved

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into laboratory research starting with

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JV Rhine who tried to get it you know in

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a controlled statistical type of study

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circumstance and they were using cards

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or dice specifically for PK and then in

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the 1960s how much met at the Rhine

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Center

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discovered that you could use a

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radioactive source and PK the random

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radioactive decay and change the

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statistics Wow the way the decay was

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happening so that that came to be called

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micro PK because was happening on a

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quantum level as opposed to sort of the

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macro PK of DD Hume and and other

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psychics what about Olga I can never

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remember open up Olga Olga whirl no oka

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colon quiggle i was thinking of lovetsky

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the one who was i believe she was in

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georgia and soviet at that time Soviet

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Georgia and in some way some of the

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things that she did I understood or read

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was what's the reason that the United

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States government got into trying to

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beat the Soviets in their psychic

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research and thus the remote viewing

273
00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:35,500
project was born but what she did she

274
00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:38,410
was a Georgian woman and she moved

275
00:14:42,630 --> 00:14:40,450
objects across the table in front of a

276
00:14:45,810 --> 00:14:42,640
lot of Soviet scientists and they

277
00:14:48,450 --> 00:14:45,820
released a movie of it i'm going to say

278
00:14:50,340 --> 00:14:48,460
in the 50s or 60s it was a long time ago

279
00:14:52,620 --> 00:14:50,350
the woman has passed at this juncture

280
00:14:54,810 --> 00:14:52,630
I'm quite sure you don't know her well

281
00:14:57,450 --> 00:14:54,820
fan no I know who you're talking about

282
00:14:59,970 --> 00:14:57,460
yeah cool going or something it's like

283
00:15:01,740 --> 00:14:59,980
almost like a Russian kilgallon but his

284
00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:01,750
cold gold going or something like that

285
00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:04,690
yeah I can't remember her name right now

286
00:15:12,090 --> 00:15:10,090
but yes she was filmed moving objects

287
00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:12,100
and you're right that could cause quite

288
00:15:17,790 --> 00:15:14,890
a stir so that would be an example of

289
00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:17,800
macro PK and there was a we have a film

290
00:15:23,850 --> 00:15:21,010
actually a u.s. woman from New York who

291
00:15:28,410 --> 00:15:23,860
was able to move objects as well with

292
00:15:31,230 --> 00:15:28,420
her hands expect she used that model of

293
00:15:34,140 --> 00:15:31,240
the Russian lady really you don't know

294
00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:34,150
where she lives or lived in New you

295
00:15:41,070 --> 00:15:37,210
work there's a reason why I asked about

296
00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:41,080
that because um the fellow who started

297
00:15:49,830 --> 00:15:45,010
the Mormon religion whose name is Smith

298
00:15:53,340 --> 00:15:49,840
Joseph Smith and the Fox sisters the

299
00:15:56,970 --> 00:15:53,350
famous table rapping font sisters lived

300
00:16:01,700 --> 00:15:56,980
just miles apart from one another which

301
00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:01,710
is also in a hotbed area of UFO

302
00:16:12,090 --> 00:16:07,210
sightings mmm so I'm wondering about the

303
00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:12,100
like geomagnetic properties or earth

304
00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:17,170
earth energies that might be involved

305
00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:19,330
there so that's why I was wondering

306
00:16:24,420 --> 00:16:20,890
where this woman in New York lived who

307
00:16:28,470 --> 00:16:24,430
did the PK well as far as i know it was

308
00:16:32,090 --> 00:16:28,480
in New York City ok ok not during place

309
00:16:35,490 --> 00:16:32,100
no and and she worked very hard at this

310
00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:35,500
it took a lot of effort and I took a lot

311
00:16:40,260 --> 00:16:39,130
out of her to do it yes so you know a

312
00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:40,270
different kind of model there's

313
00:16:45,660 --> 00:16:42,850
different ways that people approach PK

314
00:16:48,030 --> 00:16:45,670
and for some that's the no effort

315
00:16:50,310 --> 00:16:48,040
approach for others they have to expend

316
00:16:52,290 --> 00:16:50,320
mighty effort I had a friend that used

317
00:16:54,270 --> 00:16:52,300
to do that and but she'd do it as a joke

318
00:16:56,250 --> 00:16:54,280
like if you were in a back then

319
00:16:59,280 --> 00:16:56,260
everybody smoked and she just moved

320
00:17:00,840 --> 00:16:59,290
ashtrays across the table and and she

321
00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:00,850
just laugh about it and she thought

322
00:17:05,940 --> 00:17:03,850
everybody had that ability and it was it

323
00:17:07,590 --> 00:17:05,950
was interesting and you know people

324
00:17:09,180 --> 00:17:07,600
questioned her she just look at a

325
00:17:11,490 --> 00:17:09,190
picture and it would come off the wall

326
00:17:15,750 --> 00:17:11,500
and but she didn't put any effort into

327
00:17:17,340 --> 00:17:15,760
it though hmm no strange uh uh yeah go

328
00:17:19,260 --> 00:17:17,350
ahead rosslyn I was just going to say

329
00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:19,270
we're looking for people like that don't

330
00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:21,810
you oh yeah no she's not around it was

331
00:17:25,710 --> 00:17:24,250
well you know anybody he's doing things

332
00:17:28,110 --> 00:17:25,720
like that please tell him to get I

333
00:17:31,710 --> 00:17:28,120
definitely I know or if you're out there

334
00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:31,720
of any room I know two brothers one of

335
00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:37,090
whom is a ventriloquist and these two

336
00:17:42,360 --> 00:17:39,970
brothers apparently move things between

337
00:17:43,770 --> 00:17:42,370
them they sit opposite the table from

338
00:17:46,470 --> 00:17:43,780
one another I don't know if they're

339
00:17:48,030 --> 00:17:46,480
twins they might be twins or they might

340
00:17:50,820 --> 00:17:48,040
be very close in a

341
00:17:52,950 --> 00:17:50,830
and they apparently move things but I

342
00:17:57,930 --> 00:17:52,960
wouldn't send them to you Ross until I

343
00:18:00,960 --> 00:17:57,940
saw the evidence first but oh wait i saw

344
00:18:03,150 --> 00:18:00,970
to get back to it you do EE GS and MRIs

345
00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:03,160
and I was wondering ah since you do have

346
00:18:08,850 --> 00:18:05,410
some of the subjects that do this have

347
00:18:11,130 --> 00:18:08,860
you seen any anything that would take

348
00:18:13,110 --> 00:18:11,140
the so called paranormal into the normal

349
00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:13,120
range I'm interview any evidence of

350
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:16,210
changes and brain waves or anything of

351
00:18:23,970 --> 00:18:19,210
that nature well of course that's that's

352
00:18:28,590 --> 00:18:23,980
what we're after and I've got a bunch of

353
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:28,600
preliminary data we just came off of a

354
00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:33,010
year and a half pilot study and there's

355
00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:36,250
two two tasks that we have to make

356
00:18:42,890 --> 00:18:39,730
happen for these kinds of studies one of

357
00:18:47,070 --> 00:18:42,900
them is we have to be able to reliably

358
00:18:49,620 --> 00:18:47,080
detect quote-unquote PK and do it

359
00:18:52,890 --> 00:18:49,630
electronically so we can merge that data

360
00:18:58,710 --> 00:18:52,900
in simultaneously with the physiology

361
00:19:00,630 --> 00:18:58,720
the EEG data so we end up having to run

362
00:19:03,540 --> 00:19:00,640
these things in control trials their

363
00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:03,550
timed you have to do several of them

364
00:19:12,090 --> 00:19:06,250
like my standard protocol right now is

365
00:19:16,650 --> 00:19:12,100
48 trials 48 seconds each alternating

366
00:19:19,170 --> 00:19:16,660
between rest and PK and as you can see

367
00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:19,180
that's a difficult task get somebody

368
00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:23,650
turn PK on and off like that oh yeah and

369
00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:25,450
also in the process of doing that we

370
00:19:32,850 --> 00:19:30,850
accumulate mountains of data so and it

371
00:19:37,380 --> 00:19:32,860
took a while as well to get all the

372
00:19:38,730 --> 00:19:37,390
spurious protocols programmed and all

373
00:19:43,260 --> 00:19:38,740
the hardware and everything running

374
00:19:45,980 --> 00:19:43,270
synchronized and and whatnot so my pilot

375
00:19:50,510 --> 00:19:45,990
study that I just finished I've got

376
00:19:52,650 --> 00:19:50,520
significant results and out of those

377
00:19:58,020 --> 00:19:52,660
significant results in terms of getting

378
00:20:00,250 --> 00:19:58,030
PK hits I was running eegees on I would

379
00:20:04,159 --> 00:20:00,260
say to

380
00:20:07,310 --> 00:20:04,169
really good prospects for seeing

381
00:20:09,470 --> 00:20:07,320
something and the first of those we've

382
00:20:12,070 --> 00:20:09,480
started doing some of the EEG analysis

383
00:20:15,830 --> 00:20:12,080
and that's second big challenge is

384
00:20:20,090 --> 00:20:15,840
dealing with the EEG data so in order to

385
00:20:22,580 --> 00:20:20,100
get good you know analyzable EEG data

386
00:20:24,860 --> 00:20:22,590
the person the subject of the experiment

387
00:20:29,539 --> 00:20:24,870
really can't be moving very much they

388
00:20:31,700 --> 00:20:29,549
can't be chewing or moving their eyes

389
00:20:33,860 --> 00:20:31,710
we're talking or moving their hands I

390
00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:33,870
mean they can they can do that but if

391
00:20:40,070 --> 00:20:36,570
it's causing too much interference we

392
00:20:41,510 --> 00:20:40,080
have to throw that trial out and so now

393
00:20:45,289 --> 00:20:41,520
we have to go through all these trials

394
00:20:48,350 --> 00:20:45,299
manually and judge whether they're in

395
00:20:51,669 --> 00:20:48,360
the artifact and that's about the stage

396
00:20:55,519 --> 00:20:51,679
where we're in is grinding through

397
00:20:58,490 --> 00:20:55,529
visually looking at the EEG data but

398
00:21:03,289 --> 00:20:58,500
what I can say preliminary isn't one in

399
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:03,299
one case the person has a really odd you

400
00:21:12,500 --> 00:21:08,610
know EEG it's a very odd activation in

401
00:21:17,169 --> 00:21:12,510
the PK mode versus his rest mode and it

402
00:21:21,110 --> 00:21:17,179
it's like changing and frequency the

403
00:21:25,100 --> 00:21:21,120
spectral peak frequency is shifting as

404
00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:25,110
you go along as head so napping across

405
00:21:30,500 --> 00:21:27,690
spatially across the brain there's a

406
00:21:34,310 --> 00:21:30,510
different frequency from a certain part

407
00:21:36,549 --> 00:21:34,320
of the brain isn't it yeah yeah and and

408
00:21:40,639 --> 00:21:36,559
then also there's some weird

409
00:21:43,279 --> 00:21:40,649
antisymmetry so one side is set up in

410
00:21:47,899 --> 00:21:43,289
one way and the other side is it's sort

411
00:21:52,610 --> 00:21:47,909
of the opposite of it in other words

412
00:21:54,230 --> 00:21:52,620
like one side of the head the electrodes

413
00:21:57,230 --> 00:21:54,240
have a spectral peak at a certain

414
00:21:59,779 --> 00:21:57,240
frequency on the other side it's a it's

415
00:22:02,799 --> 00:21:59,789
a deep dip like that frequency is like

416
00:22:06,500 --> 00:22:02,809
gone it's missing so my goodness yeah

417
00:22:08,510 --> 00:22:06,510
it's over very preliminary does this

418
00:22:10,430 --> 00:22:08,520
have to do with the dominance of the

419
00:22:12,910 --> 00:22:10,440
right or left hemisphere or am i

420
00:22:16,030 --> 00:22:12,920
listening wrong am i hearing wrong

421
00:22:19,210 --> 00:22:16,040
not getting it I've that point I

422
00:22:22,180 --> 00:22:19,220
couldn't tell you Oh Anna Choi dominant

423
00:22:24,790 --> 00:22:22,190
or not and then one other question about

424
00:22:29,020 --> 00:22:24,800
this in a very broad sense i know you're

425
00:22:32,290 --> 00:22:29,030
measuring you know everything to a very

426
00:22:36,670 --> 00:22:32,300
fine degree but in a very broad sense is

427
00:22:40,450 --> 00:22:36,680
the person this particular person in as

428
00:22:43,870 --> 00:22:40,460
an alpha State when they're moving

429
00:22:47,620 --> 00:22:43,880
things or are they in a you know in a

430
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:47,630
beta or is it is there any like a

431
00:22:54,130 --> 00:22:52,010
broader place that you can say that

432
00:22:57,580 --> 00:22:54,140
generally it happens in alpha for

433
00:22:59,830 --> 00:22:57,590
instance or it happens and Delta well

434
00:23:02,560 --> 00:22:59,840
that's that was the odd thing about this

435
00:23:04,690 --> 00:23:02,570
particular person that it was extending

436
00:23:06,610 --> 00:23:04,700
along a range of frequencies that you

437
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:06,620
couldn't even say that anymore it was

438
00:23:11,650 --> 00:23:09,050
running from like sada all the way down

439
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:11,660
through alpha wow we could you couldn't

440
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:13,730
really say oh this person's in an awful

441
00:23:16,630 --> 00:23:15,050
state well you could say well part of

442
00:23:19,360 --> 00:23:16,640
their brains in an alpha stay put this

443
00:23:24,070 --> 00:23:19,370
other part over here is in the PK in a

444
00:23:26,470 --> 00:23:24,080
theta frequency Wow did you did you use

445
00:23:28,510 --> 00:23:26,480
a control subject the same time was

446
00:23:31,450 --> 00:23:28,520
there someone who's EEG you were

447
00:23:33,430 --> 00:23:31,460
measuring and finding sort of what I

448
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:33,440
guess we would be referred to as normal

449
00:23:43,990 --> 00:23:41,210
EEG no that's uh they do that that's

450
00:23:47,260 --> 00:23:44,000
called a standard EEG or whatever if it

451
00:23:49,990 --> 00:23:47,270
based on a person's age and sex and

452
00:23:52,780 --> 00:23:50,000
whatnot there's kind of what you would

453
00:23:55,870 --> 00:23:52,790
expect to see in a standard EEG and it

454
00:23:57,670 --> 00:23:55,880
well eventually will trundle that out

455
00:23:59,470 --> 00:23:57,680
and compare but I can already say this

456
00:24:01,660 --> 00:23:59,480
person doesn't have a standard look

457
00:24:04,930 --> 00:24:01,670
again EG like you see sounds like

458
00:24:06,940 --> 00:24:04,940
nothing like it actually no I've never

459
00:24:08,950 --> 00:24:06,950
seen I've seen a fair amount of eegees

460
00:24:11,380 --> 00:24:08,960
over the years and I have not seen one

461
00:24:13,150 --> 00:24:11,390
that looked like that sounds not to say

462
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:13,160
that you have to have an EEG that looks

463
00:24:17,590 --> 00:24:15,050
like that in order to make PK happen

464
00:24:19,900 --> 00:24:17,600
that's uh we don't know yet but but if

465
00:24:21,430 --> 00:24:19,910
you've been in the lab doing EEG say for

466
00:24:23,230 --> 00:24:21,440
medical research or something and you

467
00:24:26,530 --> 00:24:23,240
suddenly saw this when you go wait a

468
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:26,540
minute it just does not look normal

469
00:24:32,290 --> 00:24:30,530
who is that the case I if I saw

470
00:24:35,260 --> 00:24:32,300
something that looked like that yeah I

471
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:35,270
would be interesting and checking out

472
00:24:41,290 --> 00:24:38,210
the equipment right this is just one

473
00:24:46,300 --> 00:24:41,300
subject so ostensibly other subjects

474
00:24:49,140 --> 00:24:46,310
have provided other data and we're in

475
00:24:52,330 --> 00:24:49,150
the early stages of crunching then but

476
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:52,340
we're launched into the formal study now

477
00:24:58,240 --> 00:24:56,210
in which we're only accepting what we

478
00:25:01,450 --> 00:24:58,250
would call PK experts into the study

479
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:01,460
well so in order to get into the study

480
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:05,570
you've got to like pass a preliminary

481
00:25:12,130 --> 00:25:09,610
exam will call it a screening test and

482
00:25:16,300 --> 00:25:12,140
we have one person that's done that so

483
00:25:19,300 --> 00:25:16,310
far demonstrable PK we will yeah he did

484
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:19,310
it remotely so we run remote experiments

485
00:25:24,330 --> 00:25:21,890
as well that's one of her screening

486
00:25:27,190 --> 00:25:24,340
tools we can get a person on skype and

487
00:25:30,820 --> 00:25:27,200
let them run through the protocol for da

488
00:25:33,580 --> 00:25:30,830
trials you know 48 seconds each rest

489
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:33,590
versus PK then he got significant

490
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:37,970
results so he he visited the lab he's a

491
00:25:44,650 --> 00:25:42,290
healer he does energy healing oh I think

492
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:44,660
I might have an idea who that might be I

493
00:25:49,300 --> 00:25:46,490
don't know I guess we're not at liberty

494
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:49,310
to say the person's name I won't so no I

495
00:25:53,890 --> 00:25:51,530
don't think you would mind at Edwards

496
00:25:58,780 --> 00:25:53,900
yes yes I you she was just speaking with

497
00:26:02,920 --> 00:25:58,790
our mutual friend of Leslie about the at

498
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:02,930
Edwards and so yeah well just just to

499
00:26:09,910 --> 00:26:05,450
set the record straight I know dr. Ross

500
00:26:12,460 --> 00:26:09,920
dunseith as a person who is a fellow

501
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:12,470
member of the Professional Division of

502
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:15,850
the monroe institute and in addition he

503
00:26:25,060 --> 00:26:20,570
holds the title of having attended the

504
00:26:26,740 --> 00:26:25,070
most MC squared program tomorrow it's

505
00:26:29,500 --> 00:26:26,750
the dude do you want to tell us about

506
00:26:32,950 --> 00:26:29,510
that a little bit well that's been a lot

507
00:26:35,410 --> 00:26:32,960
of fun I got introduced to Joe gallon

508
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:35,420
burger and by the way Jose one of the

509
00:26:40,180 --> 00:26:37,490
people that came to our lab and got

510
00:26:43,149 --> 00:26:40,190
successful PK okay

511
00:26:45,700 --> 00:26:43,159
and it actually has has the bizarre EEG

512
00:26:48,220 --> 00:26:45,710
that we were just discussing mojo really

513
00:26:52,360 --> 00:26:48,230
its job then I'm sure I know he doesn't

514
00:26:54,909 --> 00:26:52,370
mind if we mention him well it's maybe

515
00:26:58,330 --> 00:26:54,919
it'll help him sell more books about Las

516
00:27:01,090 --> 00:26:58,340
Vegas I don't know well I can say he

517
00:27:03,789 --> 00:27:01,100
demonstrated you know in our protocol

518
00:27:05,619 --> 00:27:03,799
significant PK of X oh yeah he sees

519
00:27:09,519 --> 00:27:05,629
quite a nice fellow i really like Joe

520
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:09,529
and so what I'm happy to see can you

521
00:27:17,529 --> 00:27:13,610
move the dice well he does I mean we we

522
00:27:20,529 --> 00:27:17,539
practice doing that at sarah TMI at the

523
00:27:23,889 --> 00:27:20,539
this is where it maybe we should mention

524
00:27:26,740 --> 00:27:23,899
that what being able to move dice why

525
00:27:30,009 --> 00:27:26,750
well maybe they wouldn't let him into

526
00:27:33,399 --> 00:27:30,019
the table special no he wrote a book

527
00:27:34,990 --> 00:27:33,409
about it it already okay i had a friend

528
00:27:37,810 --> 00:27:35,000
that was a card counter and he was

529
00:27:39,879 --> 00:27:37,820
banned from Atlantic City in Las Vegas a

530
00:27:42,539 --> 00:27:39,889
lot of the I don't like them now now

531
00:27:47,740 --> 00:27:42,549
they didn't like him at all but back to

532
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:47,750
dr. Ross here um and well just you want

533
00:27:52,659 --> 00:27:49,250
to tell us a little bit about your

534
00:27:57,700 --> 00:27:52,669
adventures at MC squared well yeah sure

535
00:28:00,159 --> 00:27:57,710
so I meant Joe at a gateway a gateways I

536
00:28:01,509 --> 00:28:00,169
think that not everybody although most

537
00:28:03,430 --> 00:28:01,519
of our listeners have heard of the

538
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:03,440
Monroe Institute because I've spoken of

539
00:28:11,529 --> 00:28:07,570
it before as my own personal Hogwarts on

540
00:28:15,549 --> 00:28:11,539
enhancing Virginia but you should

541
00:28:18,340 --> 00:28:15,559
probably you know explain like what is a

542
00:28:20,639 --> 00:28:18,350
gateway and what is MC squared should

543
00:28:24,909 --> 00:28:20,649
you not not volumes but just briefly

544
00:28:27,340 --> 00:28:24,919
sure well I guess nobody's familiar with

545
00:28:29,889 --> 00:28:27,350
the monroe institute or for someone

546
00:28:32,590 --> 00:28:29,899
who's not familiar with it they're

547
00:28:34,930 --> 00:28:32,600
located in central Virginia and they

548
00:28:38,499 --> 00:28:34,940
were started by Robert Monrovia journeys

549
00:28:40,869 --> 00:28:38,509
of the body he discovered some various

550
00:28:42,430 --> 00:28:40,879
audio techniques I think a lot of people

551
00:28:46,180 --> 00:28:42,440
have heard of binaural beats or

552
00:28:48,249 --> 00:28:46,190
hemi-sync and found that that using

553
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:48,259
these techniques people could could have

554
00:28:51,940 --> 00:28:50,330
altered states of consciousness type

555
00:28:56,090 --> 00:28:51,950
experiences

556
00:28:57,560 --> 00:28:56,100
so they started a center for this in

557
00:29:00,920 --> 00:28:57,570
central Virginia in the mountains it's

558
00:29:03,860 --> 00:29:00,930
absolutely beautiful place and people

559
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:03,870
can come in do various programs most of

560
00:29:11,540 --> 00:29:07,890
them last for about a week the beginning

561
00:29:13,970 --> 00:29:11,550
program is called the Gateway and I took

562
00:29:16,490 --> 00:29:13,980
the Gateway Program off four or five

563
00:29:18,230 --> 00:29:16,500
years ago beings how we live in

564
00:29:21,980 --> 00:29:18,240
Charlottesville just right up the road I

565
00:29:27,410 --> 00:29:21,990
wanted to go experience it and my one of

566
00:29:30,380 --> 00:29:27,420
my facilitators was to a gallon burger

567
00:29:33,740 --> 00:29:30,390
and I happen to mention I was setting up

568
00:29:35,990 --> 00:29:33,750
to run PK studies at UVA not knowing

569
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:36,000
that Joe does MC squared program well

570
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:37,770
it's this is a different program at the

571
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:41,730
Monroe that's focused on psychokinesis

572
00:29:51,020 --> 00:29:46,530
healing mind over matter making things

573
00:29:53,810 --> 00:29:51,030
happen in your world and we got to

574
00:29:55,250 --> 00:29:53,820
talking and I said that I have portable

575
00:29:58,160 --> 00:29:55,260
equipment I was trying to develop

576
00:30:00,410 --> 00:29:58,170
sensors and it would be great to to be

577
00:30:03,110 --> 00:30:00,420
able to run these you know and groups

578
00:30:06,380 --> 00:30:03,120
people with groups of people who are

579
00:30:10,460 --> 00:30:06,390
studying trying to learn how to do PK

580
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:10,470
and Joe very graciously volunteered to

581
00:30:17,090 --> 00:30:14,010
let me run it MC squared so I started

582
00:30:20,380 --> 00:30:17,100
coming to MC squirts on Wednesday

583
00:30:23,300 --> 00:30:20,390
evenings bringing all my gear and

584
00:30:25,010 --> 00:30:23,310
setting up with arrays of various

585
00:30:28,250 --> 00:30:25,020
sensors I was developing and we

586
00:30:32,150 --> 00:30:28,260
discovered over time some particularly

587
00:30:36,530 --> 00:30:32,160
good ones then I've accumulated a fair

588
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:36,540
amount of data probably two rounds now

589
00:30:42,890 --> 00:30:39,210
the first round I came out with

590
00:30:46,130 --> 00:30:42,900
significant results overall comparing

591
00:30:48,050 --> 00:30:46,140
when people were trying to do PK trying

592
00:30:53,540 --> 00:30:48,060
to affect these sensors versus rest

593
00:30:58,580 --> 00:30:53,550
periods and we were even able to to go

594
00:31:02,510 --> 00:30:58,590
to the level of what types of exercises

595
00:31:04,730 --> 00:31:02,520
they were doing seemed to be the most

596
00:31:05,149 --> 00:31:04,740
efficient or causing the sensors to

597
00:31:10,339 --> 00:31:05,159
respond

598
00:31:13,580 --> 00:31:10,349
and and we would also work with small

599
00:31:16,969 --> 00:31:13,590
groups or individuals after the main

600
00:31:20,210 --> 00:31:16,979
session with large groups and some of

601
00:31:23,089 --> 00:31:20,220
these experiences have been really

602
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:23,099
pretty interesting sometimes some people

603
00:31:30,109 --> 00:31:27,090
can get going and really cause a large

604
00:31:32,779 --> 00:31:30,119
effect it's like intrusion having been

605
00:31:35,570 --> 00:31:32,789
there not when you were there but I

606
00:31:38,389 --> 00:31:35,580
having taken that class and the feeling

607
00:31:39,979 --> 00:31:38,399
one gets when it goes is kind of like

608
00:31:43,460 --> 00:31:39,989
when you're a gambler and you're on a

609
00:31:47,930 --> 00:31:43,470
run mm-hmm but would you agree with

610
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:47,940
people saying that sort of thing well

611
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:51,210
for my own personal experience who the

612
00:31:55,909 --> 00:31:54,570
one macro PK maybe I've had a few more

613
00:31:59,769 --> 00:31:55,919
but the one that's the most memorable

614
00:32:02,359 --> 00:31:59,779
was a spoon bending event i went to a

615
00:32:06,249 --> 00:32:02,369
spoon bending party in Durham North

616
00:32:08,749 --> 00:32:06,259
Carolina and I guess the early 1980s

617
00:32:11,180 --> 00:32:08,759
there was an engineer from McDonnell

618
00:32:14,330 --> 00:32:11,190
Douglas back then who was traveling

619
00:32:18,019 --> 00:32:14,340
around the country giving these spoon

620
00:32:20,479 --> 00:32:18,029
bending parties if they consisted of of

621
00:32:23,930 --> 00:32:20,489
Jack at the beginning showing a

622
00:32:26,989 --> 00:32:23,940
slideshow of people bending metal spoons

623
00:32:30,169 --> 00:32:26,999
forks whatever to prove that it could be

624
00:32:32,029 --> 00:32:30,179
done and then in a very party-like

625
00:32:34,879 --> 00:32:32,039
atmosphere people would start bending

626
00:32:37,219 --> 00:32:34,889
and we were doing that in conjunction

627
00:32:41,450 --> 00:32:37,229
with the experiential learning lab at

628
00:32:46,509 --> 00:32:41,460
Duke so we took over all the various

629
00:32:52,450 --> 00:32:46,519
metal spoons we even had three HM inch

630
00:32:55,609 --> 00:32:52,460
steel rods and people started bending

631
00:32:57,580 --> 00:32:55,619
Jack you know got everybody all excited

632
00:33:00,710 --> 00:32:57,590
they were bending it there was even a

633
00:33:03,979 --> 00:33:00,720
woman who had to be in her 70s maybe 80

634
00:33:07,279 --> 00:33:03,989
years old who who took that 38 inch

635
00:33:09,950 --> 00:33:07,289
steel rod that nobody could physically

636
00:33:12,289 --> 00:33:09,960
bend and by the end of the evening she

637
00:33:17,570 --> 00:33:12,299
had it in about though maybe 20 25

638
00:33:18,770 --> 00:33:17,580
degree angle and so you know people are

639
00:33:20,270 --> 00:33:18,780
bending left and right I

640
00:33:23,570 --> 00:33:20,280
a spoon of my an and nothing was

641
00:33:26,450 --> 00:33:23,580
happening so a couple people came over

642
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:26,460
and stood next to me and started

643
00:33:30,950 --> 00:33:28,410
chanting dan dan Ben and these were

644
00:33:32,570 --> 00:33:30,960
folks who were bendings I was holding on

645
00:33:35,690 --> 00:33:32,580
to the spoon and I felt that spoon

646
00:33:38,450 --> 00:33:35,700
turned into taffy Wow yeah huh you know

647
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:38,460
absolute Kathy and I quickly rolled to

648
00:33:45,950 --> 00:33:42,810
complete 360-degree spirals yep yep and

649
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:45,960
then yeah then I went stiff again the

650
00:33:49,460 --> 00:33:47,490
later on I took another spoon it's

651
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:49,470
exactly the same type I tried to bend it

652
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:52,650
by force yes and it snapped off before

653
00:34:01,070 --> 00:33:56,210
it even got to 90 degrees oh yes yes

654
00:34:04,190 --> 00:34:01,080
I've had experience with that and to me

655
00:34:07,670 --> 00:34:04,200
I sort of wait for the right moment and

656
00:34:09,140 --> 00:34:07,680
you know I push it one way I push it the

657
00:34:11,810 --> 00:34:09,150
other way without you know without

658
00:34:13,909 --> 00:34:11,820
bending it just pushing it a little bit

659
00:34:15,590 --> 00:34:13,919
one way or another and then you get the

660
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:15,600
feeling it's going to go you know you

661
00:34:20,720 --> 00:34:17,850
feel it's going to go and then suddenly

662
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:20,730
you just twist it in into a couple of

663
00:34:26,389 --> 00:34:23,490
spirals and there it goes it but I do

664
00:34:29,060 --> 00:34:26,399
touch it I do touch it Ross I admit I do

665
00:34:31,250 --> 00:34:29,070
touch the spoon I just go back and forth

666
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:31,260
just looking at it feel it feel it and

667
00:34:38,870 --> 00:34:33,690
then the metal gets loose it gets it

668
00:34:40,700 --> 00:34:38,880
gets more like aluminum foil than then

669
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:40,710
stainless steel that's the only way I

670
00:34:46,550 --> 00:34:44,970
can sort of describe it myself um well

671
00:34:53,750 --> 00:34:46,560
if you're bending metal we need to have

672
00:34:55,220 --> 00:34:53,760
you come visit us in the lab okay but

673
00:34:57,710 --> 00:34:55,230
actually that almost touches on

674
00:35:00,530 --> 00:34:57,720
something like all the spiritual type so

675
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:00,540
they have ritual dances and so on any of

676
00:35:04,940 --> 00:35:02,210
these sort of large groups of people

677
00:35:08,270 --> 00:35:04,950
effecting change in something or other

678
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:08,280
yeah yeah I be interesting if you could

679
00:35:14,390 --> 00:35:11,490
hook up to people doing this telekinesis

680
00:35:17,510 --> 00:35:14,400
to the same EEG machine and see what

681
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:17,520
would happen if a group effort some form

682
00:35:21,020 --> 00:35:19,290
of a group effort yeah that's well

683
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:21,030
there's actually been research done on

684
00:35:27,650 --> 00:35:24,690
both of those things the group research

685
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:27,660
has centered around random number

686
00:35:33,590 --> 00:35:31,650
generators oh yes that's my PK again

687
00:35:35,930 --> 00:35:33,600
isn't it or is it my curb yes that's

688
00:35:39,610 --> 00:35:35,940
micro PK so it's like looking at a

689
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:39,620
statistical effect and what has been

690
00:35:45,850 --> 00:35:42,210
published I think at least three or four

691
00:35:48,020 --> 00:35:45,860
papers now that when groups seem to get

692
00:35:52,010 --> 00:35:48,030
coherent so like they're doing

693
00:35:54,470 --> 00:35:52,020
meditation or some other things that

694
00:35:56,420 --> 00:35:54,480
just get the group to be coherent the

695
00:35:58,220 --> 00:35:56,430
best that's where i can describe the

696
00:36:01,640 --> 00:35:58,230
other football games you know the home

697
00:36:03,050 --> 00:36:01,650
team advantage always I mean it's a you

698
00:36:05,540 --> 00:36:03,060
know there's more people there for your

699
00:36:08,090 --> 00:36:05,550
team at home than the opposing team and

700
00:36:10,820 --> 00:36:08,100
it's it's actually recognized in sports

701
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:10,830
is the home team advantage uh-huh and

702
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:12,690
you know you get that's why you have

703
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:14,610
cheerleaders that everybody chance

704
00:36:24,650 --> 00:36:18,930
together right so so those are Angie's

705
00:36:28,820 --> 00:36:24,660
will go off random and of course that's

706
00:36:31,310 --> 00:36:28,830
the global consciousness project yes

707
00:36:33,470 --> 00:36:31,320
that was started by folks from the pair

708
00:36:35,750 --> 00:36:33,480
lab at Princeton where they've set up a

709
00:36:38,810 --> 00:36:35,760
network of random number generators all

710
00:36:44,180 --> 00:36:38,820
over the planet you know and they saw

711
00:36:48,620 --> 00:36:44,190
that the the statistical relationship of

712
00:36:51,980 --> 00:36:48,630
these various RN geez shift based on

713
00:36:53,990 --> 00:36:51,990
worldwide events I'd grab the you know

714
00:36:57,590 --> 00:36:54,000
the attention of the entire planet so

715
00:37:00,530 --> 00:36:57,600
there was a measurable shift of it on 9

716
00:37:03,860 --> 00:37:00,540
11 / temple yes and there was one on

717
00:37:07,100 --> 00:37:03,870
Diana was was buried or the day of her

718
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:07,110
funeral Princess Diana and there but

719
00:37:12,350 --> 00:37:09,890
others I think big sporting events have

720
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:12,360
caused things to go off arindam as well

721
00:37:18,710 --> 00:37:15,450
I always feel like the atmosphere gets

722
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:18,720
very quiet like even the voices in my

723
00:37:25,310 --> 00:37:22,530
head quiet down before a major Cataclysm

724
00:37:28,310 --> 00:37:25,320
of some sort occurs it's just seems

725
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:28,320
things seem to get a bit quiet our last

726
00:37:33,770 --> 00:37:30,690
guest by the way was um angela thompson

727
00:37:37,790 --> 00:37:33,780
smith who were believed was associated

728
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:37,800
with the pair lab in princeton she's the

729
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:40,290
remote viewer who's out in a las vegas

730
00:37:45,700 --> 00:37:41,610
now i don't know if you're familiar with

731
00:37:49,370 --> 00:37:45,710
her but be that as it may so

732
00:37:52,730 --> 00:37:49,380
so now this this project that you're

733
00:37:58,430 --> 00:37:52,740
doing currently is this in conjunction

734
00:38:01,790 --> 00:37:58,440
with dr. ed Kelly as well yeah that is a

735
00:38:08,450 --> 00:38:01,800
co-director of the lab with me and he's

736
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:08,460
the really the neuro scientist behind

737
00:38:12,770 --> 00:38:10,490
all this effort and and

738
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:12,780
parapsychologist-- i'm more of the

739
00:38:17,990 --> 00:38:16,290
engineer so between the two of us I

740
00:38:20,510 --> 00:38:18,000
think I think we're covering most of the

741
00:38:24,700 --> 00:38:20,520
territory well that's exciting that's

742
00:38:27,109 --> 00:38:24,710
very exciting but it for-for our-our

743
00:38:30,230 --> 00:38:27,119
uninformed listeners who might have

744
00:38:32,510 --> 00:38:30,240
thought that doing pair parapsychology

745
00:38:36,580 --> 00:38:32,520
was extraordinarily glamorous for the

746
00:38:40,390 --> 00:38:36,590
most part it's extraordinarily hard work

747
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:40,400
amassing data crunching numbers isn't it

748
00:38:49,730 --> 00:38:45,930
yes a slog you do have to acquire lots

749
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:49,740
of data and be very meticulous about how

750
00:38:55,700 --> 00:38:51,890
you analyze the data and be prepared for

751
00:38:59,620 --> 00:38:55,710
unrelenting criticism because in the

752
00:39:03,140 --> 00:38:59,630
mainstream scientific world they don't

753
00:39:06,290 --> 00:39:03,150
allow these types of things to to have

754
00:39:08,390 --> 00:39:06,300
any credence therefore they can't

755
00:39:11,630 --> 00:39:08,400
possibly happen therefore whatever

756
00:39:14,090 --> 00:39:11,640
you're doing has to be wrong aha you've

757
00:39:17,210 --> 00:39:14,100
made a mistake somewhere just a priority

758
00:39:18,620 --> 00:39:17,220
is that's wrong so I parent

759
00:39:21,530 --> 00:39:18,630
psychologists have to go to great

760
00:39:23,930 --> 00:39:21,540
lengths to show that there's no mistakes

761
00:39:27,859 --> 00:39:23,940
and the technical aspects of their work

762
00:39:30,830 --> 00:39:27,869
indeed indeed and and it would you think

763
00:39:33,410 --> 00:39:30,840
I mean my thought is that this is due to

764
00:39:37,700 --> 00:39:33,420
the fact that although physics has moved

765
00:39:40,790 --> 00:39:37,710
forward into the 21st century most of

766
00:39:45,109 --> 00:39:40,800
the scientists live with the 19th

767
00:39:48,620 --> 00:39:45,119
century paradigm of the clockwork

768
00:39:53,060 --> 00:39:48,630
universe and you know the solidity of

769
00:39:57,260 --> 00:39:53,070
matter and they don't account for more

770
00:39:58,550 --> 00:39:57,270
modern physical more modern theories of

771
00:40:05,750 --> 00:39:58,560
physics

772
00:40:08,930 --> 00:40:05,760
gotten into the 21st century with their

773
00:40:10,970 --> 00:40:08,940
ideas well you know I think it's a

774
00:40:12,380 --> 00:40:10,980
matter first of all that the people want

775
00:40:18,580 --> 00:40:12,390
a career where things are going to

776
00:40:25,790 --> 00:40:21,680
science I know things don't happen a lot

777
00:40:30,460 --> 00:40:25,800
so so because of that most working

778
00:40:34,580 --> 00:40:30,470
scientists you know are into good

779
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:34,590
reliable physical theories and data and

780
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:37,410
they pay no attention to the

781
00:40:42,290 --> 00:40:39,930
parapsychological data so they don't

782
00:40:45,310 --> 00:40:42,300
know that there's like a hundred years

783
00:40:49,820 --> 00:40:45,320
worth of a mass data showing that the

784
00:40:52,990 --> 00:40:49,830
visa phenomena are real so it's partly

785
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:53,000
ignorance it's partly convenience and

786
00:40:59,830 --> 00:40:55,410
also another thing for a lot of

787
00:41:04,180 --> 00:40:59,840
physicists that all the various quantum

788
00:41:08,750 --> 00:41:04,190
philosophies that involve bind and

789
00:41:12,260 --> 00:41:08,760
collapsing the you know the waveform and

790
00:41:14,090 --> 00:41:12,270
all that business they don't think about

791
00:41:17,090 --> 00:41:14,100
that very much quantum theory has been

792
00:41:19,070 --> 00:41:17,100
extraordinarily successful in predicting

793
00:41:22,430 --> 00:41:19,080
say the behavior of solid-state

794
00:41:26,720 --> 00:41:22,440
electronic circuitry okay and that's

795
00:41:28,430 --> 00:41:26,730
what most people use it for when you

796
00:41:31,250 --> 00:41:28,440
start getting into the realm of what

797
00:41:34,130 --> 00:41:31,260
they were called philosophy of quantum

798
00:41:38,270 --> 00:41:34,140
physics a lot of people try to avoid it

799
00:41:40,670 --> 00:41:38,280
and there's even still controversy to

800
00:41:43,730 --> 00:41:40,680
this day about whether the mind is

801
00:41:48,020 --> 00:41:43,740
involved or not whether the observation

802
00:41:50,870 --> 00:41:48,030
that collapsed the wife on the way for

803
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:50,880
them that's not exactly the right term

804
00:41:57,290 --> 00:41:54,930
but whether that's caused by mind or

805
00:41:59,030 --> 00:41:57,300
just by perturbation of the measuring

806
00:42:03,590 --> 00:41:59,040
equipment whatnot they're still arguing

807
00:42:05,660 --> 00:42:03,600
over that so mm-hmm and we still don't

808
00:42:08,130 --> 00:42:05,670
know if Schrodinger's cat made it or not

809
00:42:13,659 --> 00:42:08,140
you know

810
00:42:17,849 --> 00:42:13,669
catch you in the box well there's that I

811
00:42:22,089 --> 00:42:17,859
don't know I am of the opinion that

812
00:42:26,709 --> 00:42:22,099
without consciousness which we're all

813
00:42:29,409 --> 00:42:26,719
taking part in the other stuff is not is

814
00:42:32,229 --> 00:42:29,419
not really important because otherwise

815
00:42:35,019 --> 00:42:32,239
we're all just a bunch of mechanized

816
00:42:37,479 --> 00:42:35,029
robots in a dead universe or something

817
00:42:39,909 --> 00:42:37,489
yeah but it all goes back to the cart

818
00:42:43,299 --> 00:42:39,919
mind and body separation you know he but

819
00:42:44,439 --> 00:42:43,309
that still Alyssa yeah still but I was

820
00:42:46,449 --> 00:42:44,449
going to say you're really actually

821
00:42:48,699 --> 00:42:46,459
quite brave to have gone into this it's

822
00:42:51,609 --> 00:42:48,709
typically considered a career killer and

823
00:42:53,919 --> 00:42:51,619
yet you seem to have survived that

824
00:42:56,620 --> 00:42:53,929
onslaught as you can and flourished i

825
00:43:00,189 --> 00:42:56,630
can tell you yeah well i haven't been

826
00:43:01,959 --> 00:43:00,199
doing a continuous legal now yeah now

827
00:43:05,169 --> 00:43:01,969
well fortunately pull any I'm an

828
00:43:09,130 --> 00:43:05,179
electrical engineer so I I design you

829
00:43:13,689 --> 00:43:09,140
know instrumentation let's see from

830
00:43:15,249 --> 00:43:13,699
about I was nineteen ninety through 2010

831
00:43:19,509 --> 00:43:15,259
or so I was involved in just

832
00:43:21,789 --> 00:43:19,519
straightforward EEG type instrumentation

833
00:43:25,179 --> 00:43:21,799
development we were developing systems

834
00:43:27,130 --> 00:43:25,189
that would run inside MRI scanners and

835
00:43:28,689 --> 00:43:27,140
things like that so if I do a little bit

836
00:43:30,819 --> 00:43:28,699
of psychic research on the side they're

837
00:43:34,509 --> 00:43:30,829
not going to hold it against me because

838
00:43:36,789 --> 00:43:34,519
it the instrumentation you know it'll

839
00:43:40,029 --> 00:43:36,799
work it gets a workout with that too

840
00:43:41,709 --> 00:43:40,039
yeah and it's needed and there's

841
00:43:47,349 --> 00:43:41,719
probably a suspicion that it might pay

842
00:43:50,279 --> 00:43:47,359
off one day to write for the young the

843
00:43:54,579 --> 00:43:50,289
young person who wants to go into

844
00:43:57,640 --> 00:43:54,589
parapsychology yes but as a as a career

845
00:44:01,319 --> 00:43:57,650
as a parapsychologist solely that is a

846
00:44:05,259 --> 00:44:01,329
huge challenge in the United States

847
00:44:07,359 --> 00:44:05,269
there's much more of a opportunity for

848
00:44:12,789 --> 00:44:07,369
it in in Europe now than there is in the

849
00:44:15,939 --> 00:44:12,799
u.s. whereabouts Oh see in England

850
00:44:18,759 --> 00:44:15,949
there's two or three universities in

851
00:44:21,030 --> 00:44:18,769
Edinburgh Scotland there's psychic

852
00:44:31,690 --> 00:44:25,930
in Germany I have psychic research on

853
00:44:35,380 --> 00:44:31,700
going so I think there's more openness

854
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:35,390
to it there then there is here what do

855
00:44:40,590 --> 00:44:38,330
you credit that to what do you you know

856
00:44:44,950 --> 00:44:40,600
credit the closed mindedness of the

857
00:44:49,390 --> 00:44:44,960
American academic world as opposed to

858
00:44:53,470 --> 00:44:49,400
the European yeah I don't know I think

859
00:44:59,320 --> 00:44:53,480
it is just a matter of perhaps this is

860
00:45:03,520 --> 00:44:59,330
slowly going to change here as well egg

861
00:45:06,220 --> 00:45:03,530
Kelly and and his fellow editors Emily

862
00:45:08,380 --> 00:45:06,230
Kelly his wife and micro so Bruce

863
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:08,390
Grayson is on our staff here at this

864
00:45:14,290 --> 00:45:12,290
death experience they all published

865
00:45:16,890 --> 00:45:14,300
edited a book called the irreducible

866
00:45:20,830 --> 00:45:16,900
mind that was published a few years ago

867
00:45:23,470 --> 00:45:20,840
which is essentially a manifesto laying

868
00:45:26,470 --> 00:45:23,480
it down to the materialist science world

869
00:45:30,580 --> 00:45:26,480
that there are several things that

870
00:45:36,850 --> 00:45:30,590
cannot be explained by trying to invoke

871
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:36,860
straight materialism for example a lot

872
00:45:43,390 --> 00:45:40,610
of the parapsychology data clearly shows

873
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:43,400
that you know the idea that

874
00:45:48,310 --> 00:45:45,410
consciousness is being generated by the

875
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:48,320
activity of the brain simply doesn't cut

876
00:45:56,770 --> 00:45:51,410
it right and i think that book has been

877
00:45:59,230 --> 00:45:56,780
having an impact so things may may

878
00:46:01,750 --> 00:45:59,240
slowly open up I I know it feels like

879
00:46:03,310 --> 00:46:01,760
there's becoming more awareness and more

880
00:46:05,110 --> 00:46:03,320
openness to these ideas that

881
00:46:08,650 --> 00:46:05,120
consciousness is an important part of

882
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:08,660
the equation in that it's not generated

883
00:46:16,020 --> 00:46:11,090
solely by the flapping of neurons in the

884
00:46:18,670 --> 00:46:16,030
brain right English then then who are we

885
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:18,680
really well there was an interesting

886
00:46:22,690 --> 00:46:21,050
physical question or philosophical

887
00:46:24,550 --> 00:46:22,700
question they said if let's say you

888
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:24,560
could teleport someone on a Star Trek

889
00:46:28,780 --> 00:46:27,010
and absolutely every last little

890
00:46:32,130 --> 00:46:28,790
nanoparticle in your body was

891
00:46:35,390 --> 00:46:32,140
transported and it's perfectly

892
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:35,400
yeah okay would your soul go with it and

893
00:46:41,970 --> 00:46:38,170
that that is the question that is an

894
00:46:44,190 --> 00:46:41,980
interesting proposition but I don't

895
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:44,200
think that the physical sciences are

896
00:46:49,140 --> 00:46:46,570
quite up to giving us the model yet what

897
00:46:51,210 --> 00:46:49,150
they have teleported am I correct in it

898
00:46:53,940 --> 00:46:51,220
dr. Dunn see said there has been some

899
00:46:57,120 --> 00:46:53,950
teleportation of photons or something I

900
00:47:00,030 --> 00:46:57,130
know you know yeah I thought I heard

901
00:47:02,610 --> 00:47:00,040
something about that but I I'm not up on

902
00:47:07,380 --> 00:47:02,620
it I don't I think just something in

903
00:47:10,830 --> 00:47:07,390
Germany they did move some quanta of

904
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:10,840
matters you know little tiny particles

905
00:47:16,770 --> 00:47:13,810
of matter from one place to another and

906
00:47:19,770 --> 00:47:16,780
it was uh it was received on the other

907
00:47:22,020 --> 00:47:19,780
end and it happened but as far as the

908
00:47:24,150 --> 00:47:22,030
details I'm afraid I'm ignorant but i'm

909
00:47:26,460 --> 00:47:24,160
quite sure it happened in southern

910
00:47:29,580 --> 00:47:26,470
germany somewhere but it all has to do

911
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:29,590
with the entangle and singing but I mean

912
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:32,890
I'm oh I'm over my head here but um I

913
00:47:39,770 --> 00:47:37,090
would say that I totally agree with um

914
00:47:42,270 --> 00:47:39,780
the type of things that you are

915
00:47:45,210 --> 00:47:42,280
mentioning having to do with this

916
00:47:47,100 --> 00:47:45,220
irreducible mind book and who publishes

917
00:47:49,230 --> 00:47:47,110
it so we'll give it a plug here I mean

918
00:47:50,580 --> 00:47:49,240
you know not that not that we're going

919
00:47:51,720 --> 00:47:50,590
to make the difference for the book

920
00:47:54,780 --> 00:47:51,730
because we don't know how many

921
00:47:56,370 --> 00:47:54,790
scientists listen to our heart about it

922
00:47:58,260 --> 00:47:56,380
I'm going to sounds good it sounds good

923
00:48:01,230 --> 00:47:58,270
to us so why don't you give us the

924
00:48:03,990 --> 00:48:01,240
repeat the details for our listeners who

925
00:48:08,820 --> 00:48:04,000
might be interested yeah it's called

926
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:08,830
irreducible mind edited by ed Kelly

927
00:48:16,770 --> 00:48:13,410
Emily Kelly Bruce Grayson micro so I

928
00:48:19,980 --> 00:48:16,780
think it's published by MacFarlane okay

929
00:48:22,740 --> 00:48:19,990
all right so yeah they just actually

930
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:22,750
came out with another book to throwing a

931
00:48:28,620 --> 00:48:24,010
point for that one's called beyond

932
00:48:31,260 --> 00:48:28,630
physicalism so that's a big Kelly's the

933
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:31,270
editor and I think Adam cat Crabtree is

934
00:48:36,990 --> 00:48:33,570
editor for both of these books as well

935
00:48:40,050 --> 00:48:37,000
and that book is about some of the

936
00:48:44,229 --> 00:48:40,060
theories that could help elucidate how

937
00:48:49,599 --> 00:48:44,239
it is that mind may exist

938
00:48:53,349 --> 00:48:49,609
without the brain well I try not to be

939
00:48:55,779 --> 00:48:53,359
too dualistic and try to you know look

940
00:49:01,629 --> 00:48:55,789
at consciousness as the primary the

941
00:49:04,329 --> 00:49:01,639
primary element of a mount of creation

942
00:49:06,639 --> 00:49:04,339
of beingness you know consciousness and

943
00:49:11,529 --> 00:49:06,649
without consciousness there is nothing

944
00:49:14,159 --> 00:49:11,539
but do tell us Ross other than your

945
00:49:19,019 --> 00:49:14,169
spoon bending parties etc and

946
00:49:23,289 --> 00:49:19,029
experiences at at the monroe institute

947
00:49:26,399 --> 00:49:23,299
like with class there have there been

948
00:49:29,259 --> 00:49:26,409
other experiences that pulled you into

949
00:49:35,409 --> 00:49:29,269
this field in other words a personal

950
00:49:37,149 --> 00:49:35,419
experience such as did a UFO land on

951
00:49:40,479 --> 00:49:37,159
your lawn or did you see your mother

952
00:49:42,429 --> 00:49:40,489
your grandmother's ghost floating in

953
00:49:44,439 --> 00:49:42,439
your window one night or I'm being silly

954
00:49:50,129 --> 00:49:44,449
you know I'm granted being quite silly

955
00:49:53,169 --> 00:49:50,139
but um did was there some paramount

956
00:49:56,589 --> 00:49:53,179
event that occurred earlier in your life

957
00:49:58,749 --> 00:49:56,599
that you would like to share with us you

958
00:50:02,139 --> 00:49:58,759
know I think about it I was always

959
00:50:06,069 --> 00:50:02,149
interested in this sort of thing even in

960
00:50:09,699 --> 00:50:06,079
grade school I can't say there was any

961
00:50:12,549 --> 00:50:09,709
huge precipitating event except that i

962
00:50:15,279 --> 00:50:12,559
got to duke university in durham and and

963
00:50:17,829 --> 00:50:15,289
there was so much research going on at

964
00:50:21,519 --> 00:50:17,839
the time and i got to meet some really

965
00:50:23,649 --> 00:50:21,529
interesting psychic folks and see

966
00:50:26,619 --> 00:50:23,659
research in action and i did get to

967
00:50:29,439 --> 00:50:26,629
experience one aside from that spoon

968
00:50:32,769 --> 00:50:29,449
bending event a really good laboratory

969
00:50:36,159 --> 00:50:32,779
case under control conditions with

970
00:50:40,269 --> 00:50:36,169
controlled instrumentation where a

971
00:50:43,119 --> 00:50:40,279
person was able to affect what i think

972
00:50:47,649 --> 00:50:43,129
is probably you know indisputable

973
00:50:50,019 --> 00:50:47,659
evidence for for PK ok and I've got the

974
00:50:54,099 --> 00:50:50,029
chart recording of that I like to use it

975
00:50:57,270 --> 00:50:54,109
when I give talks as a motivation for

976
00:51:04,370 --> 00:50:57,280
studying more macro PK and

977
00:51:06,530 --> 00:51:04,380
instead of micro PK day off this was a

978
00:51:11,670 --> 00:51:06,540
if you're familiar with the old

979
00:51:14,730 --> 00:51:11,680
phonograph record players they had

980
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:14,740
crystal cartridges in them those things

981
00:51:21,300 --> 00:51:18,970
are sensitive to force to vibration so I

982
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:21,310
build up some instrumentation that used

983
00:51:30,300 --> 00:51:26,170
those things as force detectors and I

984
00:51:34,470 --> 00:51:30,310
have one suspended in a glass tube and

985
00:51:39,110 --> 00:51:34,480
another one mounted on the big granite

986
00:51:42,420 --> 00:51:39,120
rock the whole equipment was resting on

987
00:51:45,180 --> 00:51:42,430
so it was pig the the second one was

988
00:51:48,720 --> 00:51:45,190
picking up environmental vibration okay

989
00:51:52,110 --> 00:51:48,730
as a control the first one in the tube

990
00:51:54,420 --> 00:51:52,120
was the target and on one particular

991
00:51:58,980 --> 00:51:54,430
occasion a person came in it was rather

992
00:52:02,060 --> 00:51:58,990
spontaneous and after about a half an

993
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:02,070
hour of sitting quietly with the system

994
00:52:10,260 --> 00:52:06,970
suddenly the detector went off it

995
00:52:13,830 --> 00:52:10,270
started getting a rather large signal on

996
00:52:15,570 --> 00:52:13,840
it whereas the control was absolutely

997
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:15,580
quiet there was no environmental

998
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:19,090
vibration causing this you know at that

999
00:52:25,410 --> 00:52:21,010
point the person said I've managed to

1000
00:52:29,190 --> 00:52:25,420
put energy my energy into the sensor so

1001
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:29,200
now this is we're talking the same level

1002
00:52:34,980 --> 00:52:32,610
of force that a phonograph needle

1003
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:34,990
experiences writing on the grooves of a

1004
00:52:39,630 --> 00:52:38,170
record okay you know that's okay you

1005
00:52:43,710 --> 00:52:39,640
might say that's kind of little maybe we

1006
00:52:46,530 --> 00:52:43,720
could call it mini PK and but you know

1007
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:46,540
it's it's there it's physical it's in

1008
00:52:52,460 --> 00:52:49,690
this world it's enough to make you hear

1009
00:52:56,880 --> 00:52:52,470
music coming from a piece of vinyl

1010
00:52:58,890 --> 00:52:56,890
exactly and then to top it off they got

1011
00:53:01,440 --> 00:52:58,900
up and left the room it stayed activated

1012
00:53:03,390 --> 00:53:01,450
then they went back in the room sat down

1013
00:53:07,250 --> 00:53:03,400
and said I'm going to pull my energy out

1014
00:53:09,050 --> 00:53:07,260
of it and we watched that signal go down

1015
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:09,060
Wow

1016
00:53:15,770 --> 00:53:13,210
so I thought that was a really really

1017
00:53:18,060 --> 00:53:15,780
shocking demonstration of pique oh

1018
00:53:21,150 --> 00:53:18,070
that's wonderful that's a wonderful

1019
00:53:24,180 --> 00:53:21,160
demonstration I believe I believe you

1020
00:53:26,970 --> 00:53:24,190
gave a talk about it at the the PD two

1021
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:26,980
years ago did you not yeah so I say I

1022
00:53:31,080 --> 00:53:29,050
like to use that one as a yeah cuz I

1023
00:53:33,750 --> 00:53:31,090
remembered it when you started talking

1024
00:53:36,630 --> 00:53:33,760
about it I remembered it and it was very

1025
00:53:40,620 --> 00:53:36,640
very very impressive very impressive and

1026
00:53:44,720 --> 00:53:40,630
still is and and how is how has mr.

1027
00:53:48,330 --> 00:53:44,730
Eddie Edwards done I don't know yet he's

1028
00:53:50,850 --> 00:53:48,340
we've got a lot of data now this brings

1029
00:53:52,910 --> 00:53:50,860
up another interesting part of the

1030
00:53:56,370 --> 00:53:52,920
equation with this kind of research

1031
00:54:00,240 --> 00:53:56,380
especially sort of on a macro side of

1032
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:00,250
things if if the macro PK gets going

1033
00:54:05,010 --> 00:54:03,130
there can be a pretty good chance that

1034
00:54:08,100 --> 00:54:05,020
the whole electronic system is going to

1035
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:08,110
collapse you know I've had that happen

1036
00:54:15,060 --> 00:54:11,290
to me a couple of times so for example i

1037
00:54:16,770 --> 00:54:15,070
was in la madera New Mexico had a field

1038
00:54:21,240 --> 00:54:16,780
system setup we were working with a

1039
00:54:23,220 --> 00:54:21,250
local healer and the community ealer had

1040
00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:23,230
been doing this for a million years and

1041
00:54:30,240 --> 00:54:25,810
he had a client that morning and this

1042
00:54:33,630 --> 00:54:30,250
person had a huge cathartic emotional

1043
00:54:37,170 --> 00:54:33,640
release and just at that moment that

1044
00:54:40,170 --> 00:54:37,180
that happened the electronics shut down

1045
00:54:43,950 --> 00:54:40,180
oh do you want to tell him about what

1046
00:54:46,050 --> 00:54:43,960
happened with us here with the no you go

1047
00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:46,060
right ahead no I think it's the the

1048
00:54:54,090 --> 00:54:49,570
first time that you and I and the late

1049
00:54:57,840 --> 00:54:54,100
great Valerie oh we've had we've had a

1050
00:55:00,600 --> 00:54:57,850
lot of issues on the Tesla effect that

1051
00:55:05,070 --> 00:55:00,610
what what what Jackie likes to call the

1052
00:55:08,630 --> 00:55:05,080
Tesla effect where our system you know

1053
00:55:12,270 --> 00:55:08,640
just collapses things disappear it

1054
00:55:15,180 --> 00:55:12,280
crashes it's just played unexplained I

1055
00:55:17,250 --> 00:55:15,190
think you should tell that the the

1056
00:55:19,860 --> 00:55:17,260
Valerie story well we were just

1057
00:55:21,430 --> 00:55:19,870
recording an interview and it was the

1058
00:55:24,130 --> 00:55:21,440
old Kate Valentine shell

1059
00:55:26,230 --> 00:55:24,140
this show yes and Bill was that bill was

1060
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:26,240
there and Dave mar galati was the

1061
00:55:31,930 --> 00:55:29,690
station manager and dave is very OCD and

1062
00:55:34,329 --> 00:55:31,940
eggs care of everything as this bill and

1063
00:55:37,300 --> 00:55:34,339
between the two of them we never lost a

1064
00:55:39,609 --> 00:55:37,310
recording but this young lady I said

1065
00:55:41,470 --> 00:55:39,619
that's great you know for usha Valerie

1066
00:55:44,559 --> 00:55:41,480
will make this a little show together

1067
00:55:46,240 --> 00:55:44,569
and boom the recording disappeared it

1068
00:55:48,490 --> 00:55:46,250
couldn't be found Dave I think it's

1069
00:55:50,559 --> 00:55:48,500
still looking while it disappeared off

1070
00:55:52,540 --> 00:55:50,569
more than one machine it's the that's

1071
00:55:54,940 --> 00:55:52,550
what i meant yeah yeah all of them it

1072
00:55:58,240 --> 00:55:54,950
was a backup record any initial

1073
00:56:01,690 --> 00:55:58,250
recording bill had it remember it was it

1074
00:56:06,579 --> 00:56:01,700
disappeared from multiple places and we

1075
00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:06,589
we have had other other less well there

1076
00:56:11,230 --> 00:56:08,930
was the atomic clock at the studio which

1077
00:56:13,420 --> 00:56:11,240
they used of course because it was on

1078
00:56:17,020 --> 00:56:13,430
the air at all time and timing had to be

1079
00:56:18,550 --> 00:56:17,030
very very carefully measured and mobile

1080
00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:18,560
was there that I remember but we walked

1081
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:21,050
in he clocked the second hand get on her

1082
00:56:25,809 --> 00:56:23,930
around and around around around and dave

1083
00:56:28,530 --> 00:56:25,819
was like all you two and you get here no

1084
00:56:32,349 --> 00:56:28,540
no no we've had we've had our share of

1085
00:56:35,650 --> 00:56:32,359
of disturbances and the biggest

1086
00:56:37,930 --> 00:56:35,660
disturbance on on air was not with us I

1087
00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:37,940
mean we lost stuff but the on air

1088
00:56:43,300 --> 00:56:40,130
disturbance which was incredible was

1089
00:56:46,240 --> 00:56:43,310
with the fellow down oh this is going to

1090
00:56:47,530 --> 00:56:46,250
be not good for broadcast because I

1091
00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:47,540
can't think of the fellows name but he

1092
00:56:52,540 --> 00:56:49,490
was he was talking from South America

1093
00:56:56,650 --> 00:56:52,550
and every time he started to talk about

1094
00:57:00,609 --> 00:56:56,660
his psychic stuff that was going on this

1095
00:57:04,809 --> 00:57:00,619
this incredible more than interference

1096
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:04,819
wow wow wow and come up Oh unfortunately

1097
00:57:08,079 --> 00:57:06,290
I can't think of the man's name that

1098
00:57:09,970 --> 00:57:08,089
would have made the salary good that's

1099
00:57:11,589 --> 00:57:09,980
exactly what makes your research some

1100
00:57:14,410 --> 00:57:11,599
difficult though is these things pop up

1101
00:57:16,420 --> 00:57:14,420
out of nowhere you cannot reproduce them

1102
00:57:18,250 --> 00:57:16,430
as of course modern science would want

1103
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:18,260
you to do you can't measure them you

1104
00:57:22,990 --> 00:57:20,450
can't quantify them you can't reproduce

1105
00:57:26,470 --> 00:57:23,000
them at will it's data that springs up

1106
00:57:28,390 --> 00:57:26,480
here and here and just never has all you

1107
00:57:31,450 --> 00:57:28,400
can say is it happened and that's it

1108
00:57:35,079 --> 00:57:31,460
well yeah we tried we try to cram it

1109
00:57:37,630 --> 00:57:35,089
into a control setup and it doesn't know

1110
00:57:39,190 --> 00:57:37,640
he's state control but but that I just

1111
00:57:41,739 --> 00:57:39,200
wanted to briefly mention what happened

1112
00:57:45,700 --> 00:57:41,749
when Ted Edwards was here so we were

1113
00:57:48,130 --> 00:57:45,710
running one of the protocols and he

1114
00:57:50,079 --> 00:57:48,140
later told me he was on a on a roll he

1115
00:57:53,170 --> 00:57:50,089
was he gets feedback at the end of each

1116
00:57:56,920 --> 00:57:53,180
peak a trial and he said he was getting

1117
00:58:01,029 --> 00:57:56,930
hit after hit on trial number 13 the

1118
00:58:03,509 --> 00:58:01,039
system just seized up Wow yeah well you

1119
00:58:05,799 --> 00:58:03,519
know and it doesn't normally do that so

1120
00:58:09,339 --> 00:58:05,809
fortunately we were able to restart and

1121
00:58:11,140 --> 00:58:09,349
keep getting our trials but I thought

1122
00:58:13,180 --> 00:58:11,150
that was a pretty interesting sign that

1123
00:58:14,729 --> 00:58:13,190
something was going on with him oh yeah

1124
00:58:19,630 --> 00:58:14,739
well he sounds like a fascinating

1125
00:58:22,150 --> 00:58:19,640
individual everybody who has met him who

1126
00:58:25,229 --> 00:58:22,160
I've spoken to has been very impressed

1127
00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:25,239
with him so he's certainly somebody who

1128
00:58:32,049 --> 00:58:27,890
you know we want to hear more from as

1129
00:58:37,479 --> 00:58:32,059
well as from you so what what's coming

1130
00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:37,489
up for further Ross dunseith well what's

1131
00:58:45,549 --> 00:58:42,650
coming up is find me more subjects well

1132
00:58:48,579 --> 00:58:45,559
put the call out put it out right now on

1133
00:58:51,789 --> 00:58:48,589
on our show we don't we don't guarantee

1134
00:58:54,849 --> 00:58:51,799
anything but it couldn't wait as we say

1135
00:58:58,089 --> 00:58:54,859
in Brooklyn oh yeah boom benden's of

1136
00:59:00,579 --> 00:58:58,099
America listen up there you go and you

1137
00:59:03,670 --> 00:59:00,589
know i'd say subject sort of facetiously

1138
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:03,680
they really were were co-investigators

1139
00:59:10,450 --> 00:59:06,650
but we're looking for folks who who can

1140
00:59:13,539 --> 00:59:10,460
really do it and want to get in engage

1141
00:59:17,289 --> 00:59:13,549
in some laughter research and help you

1142
00:59:19,299 --> 00:59:17,299
know humanity understand what's going on

1143
00:59:22,870 --> 00:59:19,309
with this stuff so do you see any

1144
00:59:25,089 --> 00:59:22,880
practical application for it I mean in a

1145
00:59:27,339 --> 00:59:25,099
very crass sense I mean I'm sorry I

1146
00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:27,349
don't mean to be that well I think I

1147
00:59:33,069 --> 00:59:30,650
think healing is probably ah you know

1148
00:59:35,739 --> 00:59:33,079
the first one that's such a good one too

1149
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:35,749
well you're associated with the medical

1150
00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:38,930
school at the UVA right no or or or I

1151
00:59:45,219 --> 00:59:42,170
guess what you were no well Dobson suit

1152
00:59:46,670 --> 00:59:45,229
in the department psychiatry and neyo

1153
00:59:49,490 --> 00:59:46,680
being outside it is

1154
00:59:51,410 --> 00:59:49,500
you know and and I know in Germany you

1155
00:59:54,610 --> 00:59:51,420
can specialize as an md and

1156
00:59:59,360 --> 00:59:54,620
psychosomatic medicine and I I think

1157
01:00:02,120 --> 00:59:59,370
healers probably do what they do without

1158
01:00:04,100 --> 01:00:02,130
realizing how they're doing it and if

1159
01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:04,110
you could train these people to be able

1160
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:07,530
to know sort of what they're doing it

1161
01:00:11,750 --> 01:00:09,330
yeah I think that would be a wonderful

1162
01:00:13,940 --> 01:00:11,760
thing I think you know we we had a

1163
01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:13,950
resident here a few years ago she's

1164
01:00:19,070 --> 01:00:16,490
since graduated and left but she was

1165
01:00:21,650 --> 01:00:19,080
trained in the barber Brennan school

1166
01:00:23,840 --> 01:00:21,660
uh-huh uh-huh so she was also a

1167
01:00:27,140 --> 01:00:23,850
psychiatrist trained psychiatrist and

1168
01:00:28,850 --> 01:00:27,150
jeet she knew what she was doing and she

1169
01:00:31,760 --> 01:00:28,860
would bring those two modalities

1170
01:00:35,390 --> 01:00:31,770
together and use energy healing and also

1171
01:00:37,610 --> 01:00:35,400
you know work on the mental aspects and

1172
01:00:42,860 --> 01:00:37,620
I can tell you that that was quite

1173
01:00:46,970 --> 01:00:42,870
powerful well I think this has been like

1174
01:00:48,560 --> 01:00:46,980
a really fascinating show today I can't

1175
01:00:50,240 --> 01:00:48,570
believe it's over I can't believe it's

1176
01:00:55,400 --> 01:00:50,250
almost over we have a few more minutes

1177
01:00:59,270 --> 01:00:55,410
and do you want to leave any kind of an

1178
01:01:01,460 --> 01:00:59,280
address for pls and/or an email address

1179
01:01:06,080 --> 01:01:01,470
for people to send to you if they want

1180
01:01:10,220 --> 01:01:06,090
to co-create this study with you and be

1181
01:01:16,250 --> 01:01:10,230
a subject if you will I would ask folks

1182
01:01:18,020 --> 01:01:16,260
to just look up tops do PSUV a google it

1183
01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:18,030
and you can get in touch with us through

1184
01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:22,650
that through our website there's ways to

1185
01:01:28,490 --> 01:01:25,890
to contact us there I think that's

1186
01:01:30,200 --> 01:01:28,500
probably the easiest thing to do and do

1187
01:01:32,390 --> 01:01:30,210
you have a lot of published papers for

1188
01:01:33,980 --> 01:01:32,400
people that may not be subjects but

1189
01:01:39,080 --> 01:01:33,990
would be interested in reading about

1190
01:01:41,510 --> 01:01:39,090
your work the tops website lists various

1191
01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:41,520
publications I don't have very many

1192
01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:45,690
myself most of my stuff our patents for

1193
01:01:51,710 --> 01:01:47,130
instrumentation it's not very

1194
01:01:53,780 --> 01:01:51,720
interesting well cool well it is

1195
01:01:59,000 --> 01:01:53,790
interesting you know because it's it's a

1196
01:02:00,140 --> 01:01:59,010
way for for this work to move forward if

1197
01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:00,150
you have

1198
01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:02,970
created instrumentation to measure see

1199
01:02:07,609 --> 01:02:04,890
that's the part that scientists never

1200
01:02:10,460 --> 01:02:07,619
admit that creation of all their

1201
01:02:13,549 --> 01:02:10,470
different theories and so on is indeed

1202
01:02:15,710 --> 01:02:13,559
to create a mental creation and it

1203
01:02:18,319 --> 01:02:15,720
doesn't I mean obviously it Springs from

1204
01:02:21,789 --> 01:02:18,329
prior works but there's a little

1205
01:02:24,740 --> 01:02:21,799
mentality to it too and I'm just I'm

1206
01:02:27,710 --> 01:02:24,750
seeing seeing that and I'm thinking now

1207
01:02:31,329 --> 01:02:27,720
just simply about the work I've done

1208
01:02:35,089 --> 01:02:31,339
with creative visualization which is

1209
01:02:38,539 --> 01:02:35,099
seeking to do almost a PK kind of effect

1210
01:02:40,339 --> 01:02:38,549
but a more diffuse PK kind of effect and

1211
01:02:43,339 --> 01:02:40,349
the idea of using more than one person

1212
01:02:47,480 --> 01:02:43,349
like gathering a group to do creative

1213
01:02:50,450 --> 01:02:47,490
visualization in for each person in the

1214
01:02:53,170 --> 01:02:50,460
group like each person has a foreseeable

1215
01:02:57,650 --> 01:02:53,180
goal something that's tangible and

1216
01:03:00,349 --> 01:02:57,660
measurable and they can accomplish this

1217
01:03:03,349 --> 01:03:00,359
but the group together the group energy

1218
01:03:05,930 --> 01:03:03,359
sees it happening and helps move it

1219
01:03:08,870 --> 01:03:05,940
forward in the world and I can see how

1220
01:03:13,039 --> 01:03:08,880
these two things can be possibly related

1221
01:03:17,059 --> 01:03:13,049
so um would you like to give us any

1222
01:03:20,049 --> 01:03:17,069
final words there was final words why

1223
01:03:23,930 --> 01:03:20,059
other than I don't even altima tlie fine

1224
01:03:29,660 --> 01:03:23,940
you know kind of like like a send-off

1225
01:03:32,450 --> 01:03:29,670
for us here I don't know but that's good

1226
01:03:34,700 --> 01:03:32,460
that's okay that's okay okay but I

1227
01:03:37,069 --> 01:03:34,710
doctor does it honestly I we know you're

1228
01:03:39,440 --> 01:03:37,079
very busy man and you're certainly an

1229
01:03:41,750 --> 01:03:39,450
extremely accomplished person and really

1230
01:03:43,549 --> 01:03:41,760
weird sincere thank you for taking this

1231
01:03:45,740 --> 01:03:43,559
hour to be with us it was a most

1232
01:03:47,960 --> 01:03:45,750
enjoyable conversation thank you so much

1233
01:03:49,760 --> 01:03:47,970
really thank you thank you for us take

1234
01:03:52,789 --> 01:03:49,770
care of now see you soon like you all

1235
01:03:54,559 --> 01:03:52,799
right bye bye bye I know oh that was

1236
01:03:58,339 --> 01:03:54,569
great I enjoyed that froosh I don't know

1237
01:04:00,620 --> 01:03:58,349
about you but that was uh I honestly you

1238
01:04:03,650 --> 01:04:00,630
know it's not my main area of interest

1239
01:04:06,920 --> 01:04:03,660
but boy really piqued my curiosity well

1240
01:04:10,670 --> 01:04:06,930
it I tend to think that the more you

1241
01:04:13,789 --> 01:04:10,680
know about the paranormal the more it

1242
01:04:15,709 --> 01:04:13,799
becomes almost I'm going to say this is

1243
01:04:18,439 --> 01:04:15,719
of course not scientific board but a

1244
01:04:20,959 --> 01:04:18,449
unified field not like the unified field

1245
01:04:22,039 --> 01:04:20,969
theory of well they said it was

1246
01:04:25,279 --> 01:04:22,049
established that they had their

1247
01:04:27,049 --> 01:04:25,289
established but it you know where one

1248
01:04:28,999 --> 01:04:27,059
thing bleeds into another which was

1249
01:04:34,630 --> 01:04:29,009
about like the last kind of thing I was

1250
01:04:37,130 --> 01:04:34,640
saying like with the intentionality and

1251
01:04:39,979 --> 01:04:37,140
that sort of thing when when you get at

1252
01:04:42,169 --> 01:04:39,989
a large group together and you do some

1253
01:04:45,289 --> 01:04:42,179
creative visualization for one another

1254
01:04:47,359 --> 01:04:45,299
and you all see you know certain project

1255
01:04:49,489 --> 01:04:47,369
moving forward like you sit there and

1256
01:04:51,859 --> 01:04:49,499
you all see Mary Jane passing the bar

1257
01:04:54,049 --> 01:04:51,869
examination well that might really help

1258
01:04:58,130 --> 01:04:54,059
Mary Jane pass the bar examination and

1259
01:05:00,949 --> 01:04:58,140
is it PK or is it not BK we can't say

1260
01:05:04,189 --> 01:05:00,959
but what about if all these things are

1261
01:05:06,910 --> 01:05:04,199
related simply to the consciousness

1262
01:05:11,630 --> 01:05:06,920
element and the fact that we're all

1263
01:05:14,739 --> 01:05:11,640
we're all one on some other level while

1264
01:05:18,859 --> 01:05:14,749
we all have these um you know these

1265
01:05:23,089 --> 01:05:18,869
monkey suits on and and we were all

1266
01:05:27,799 --> 01:05:23,099
these flesh puppets here but underneath

1267
01:05:30,109 --> 01:05:27,809
the consciousness is all one well I tell

1268
01:05:31,999 --> 01:05:30,119
you that's your opinion and they've

1269
01:05:34,640 --> 01:05:32,009
heard my opinion now we want to know

1270
01:05:39,109 --> 01:05:34,650
your opinion please yes and please

1271
01:05:42,939 --> 01:05:39,119
please um catch us on iTunes or go to

1272
01:05:47,269 --> 01:05:42,949
our website shattered reality

1273
01:05:50,539 --> 01:05:47,279
podcast.com and there you can leave us

1274
01:05:53,779 --> 01:05:50,549
your questions you can make requests for

1275
01:05:55,759 --> 01:05:53,789
other guests and if that person is to

1276
01:05:58,219 --> 01:05:55,769
our liking and agrees to come on why

1277
01:06:02,799 --> 01:05:58,229
they'll be on shattered reality in the

1278
01:06:05,599 --> 01:06:02,809
future so please write in a text us

1279
01:06:08,479 --> 01:06:05,609
anything anything like that please let

1280
01:06:12,109 --> 01:06:08,489
us know we're on facebook it's under

1281
01:06:17,779 --> 01:06:12,119
shattered reality podcast but it is

1282
01:06:20,059 --> 01:06:17,789
under the subcategory of radio okay even

1283
01:06:22,789 --> 01:06:20,069
though we are on the internet and

1284
01:06:25,969 --> 01:06:22,799
Facebook is on the internet they still

1285
01:06:26,760 --> 01:06:25,979
do not have a podcast category amazingly

1286
01:06:33,450 --> 01:06:26,770
enough

1287
01:06:35,820 --> 01:06:33,460
a group thing yes and maybe they will

1288
01:06:39,030 --> 01:06:35,830
bring a whole big ring your show into

1289
01:06:42,510 --> 01:06:39,040
being if we get enough likes yes we need

1290
01:06:46,260 --> 01:06:42,520
we need good ratings on iTunes and we

1291
01:06:49,410 --> 01:06:46,270
need likes on our Facebook page and that

1292
01:06:54,030 --> 01:06:49,420
sort of thing so please help us out send

1293
01:06:56,460 --> 01:06:54,040
us some input as to what you think about

1294
01:07:02,630 --> 01:06:56,470
the show and what you'd like to see here

1295
01:07:05,580 --> 01:07:02,640
next so for Kate Valentine and myself

1296
01:07:23,620 --> 01:07:05,590
prepare to have your paradigm shifted

1297
01:07:30,670 --> 01:07:27,110
welcome to shattered reality with your

1298
01:07:33,650 --> 01:07:30,680
hosts kate valentine and farrugia

1299
01:07:37,720 --> 01:07:33,660
prepare to have your paradigms shifted